Put off by the races

We have just joined SH and are getting to know the unwritten rules and social norms that are preferred and I must say we have made some missteps.  We try and read all profiles and be as respectful as possible while replying to messages.  

The one thing I still do not understand are tags in profiles like "we do not cross the race barrier" or "we prefer our race".  I understand everyone has preferences but to exclude people purely based on their race seems out of date these days even in South Africa.  I understand, Body type, Hygiene, hair colour, eye colour even skin type or to a more controversial extent skin colour (maybe you have a fair maiden fantasy, or tall dark and mysterious)

Either way if thats your preference you are not guaranteed to have somebody in a specific race.  For instance, growing up in Cape Town if you had to trace your lineage this might be a surprise for some people because Cape Town was one of the busiest ports in the world. 

We did the 23andme test and the results we staggering. I am mixed race but how mixed was a surprise to me.  A friend of ours who would be "classed" as  caucasian by some SH profiles found out that she is 75% eastern European and 15% Central African.  I wonder if she would fit the strict guidelines of cuacasians only.

The SH matching algorithm matches our profiles because we have so much in common, it all seems great until the dreaded descriptor. 

It all seems archaic, outdated and a little inappropriate.  I understand you have preferences but to wear a race constriction as a badge of honor on your profile in my opinion

This is of course my opinion and of course a bit of a rant. I wish everybody all the best

Regards

K and R

The majority of the profiles indicating they don't cross colour lines are Caucasian profiles. But we have stumbled across some black couples and singles who specifically mention they are only into black play. 

Their journeys - their rules. 

@2some4fun everybody has the right to choose their journey.  I made that point clearly in the post.  Publicly deciding who you decide to be friends with, play with or socialize with based on race is tasteless to me, specifically because it is not directly correlated to physical attributes.(as per the 23andme example)

I am not arguing a Caucasian/black bias.  I am not arguing against personal choice.  

I am pointing out publicly proclaiming your racial bias as a badge of honor.  That was the point behind the rant which I summarized at the end.  

I assume your argument might then be "their profile, their rules".  And if this is the case, then that is the systemic cultural shift I am hoping to move away from and ranting about

 .  

Think of it this way @Playfulpeeps: Your profile specifies you only want contact from couples and single females. Some might argue that it's tasteless to publicly spurn single males purely because of their relationship status. Do you dislike single males? No you dont. You just want to limit them flooding your inbox since they aren't what youre looking for surely? We figure its the same with people who state "we arent into cross racial play". Its not a "badge of honor". It their preference. Intended to eliminate wasting their (or others) time.

The point you are making above validates race as preference.  I do not agree.  SH doesnt agree (or we would have had a race option) and the modern world does not agree.

Your exact justification is the culture we need to change. Believing that preference based on race is ok. 

Thank you for your opinion here and im sure there are some that appreciate you advocating on their behalf but to be blunt, having a condition based solely on race is racist. Surely you can see the difference.

Actually. We are on a number of Swinging platforms. Some international and race IS recorded when you sign up and CAN be a determining choice when seeking out playmates. Fact. So no. Its not a South African thing. SH may not have it as a feature and so be it. 

We get it... You want to play across racial lines. Good for you. Very progressive. But some don't. Good for them. Thats their choice. 

It's a lifestyle that embraces choice. Its one of the cornerstones of happy swinging. But to denigrate somebody based on their choices is as bad as the strawman argument that they are worse off morally because they also have preferences.

We aren't advocating for anybody. We have, and do cross racial lines when we play. Do we vilify anybody that doesnt? No. Why? Because its their choice.

I'm glad you cross racial lines and I understand your preference not to vilify racism.

Racial lines should not exist and public flaunting if this ideology IS however vilified today.  The phrase racial lines itself saddens me.  I dont expect to change peoples minds but to change the culture in the future.  And this starts with whats publicly acceptable today.

Your argument boils down to racial discrimination for convenience.  This is a very slippery slope.

Have a racist mindset, thats fine arguably it is your right. Making it public is not. This was the point of my rant.  Im glad to have this argument hopefully it helps others see the differences too.

PS.  I have joined a few sites over the last 2 days. and I have not encountered a single one that allows you to exclude based on race (local and international).  

I must say, my eyes have opened since joining SH many years ago and these day's I have many friends that would have been frowned on  while I was still at school, but I must say they are the most fun at times.

As an interracial couple we are on the odd occasions told that couples (or singles) will not play with us due to one of our races. In our view, this is not a reflection of the other couple or singles potential of being a racist. This is merely a reflection of their lusts, desires and wants. To stereotype based on this would in it self be wrong. The united nations definition of racism - includes all forms of discrimination based on age, size, gender, sexual orientation, culture. Considering this............ a large majority would be classified as racist. If you opt to not engage with someone of a body type suited to your preference, or as we see often males who are bi sexual seem to get less interest from couples. There are may arguments here. 

Its simple.......... each person, single and couple has preferences. We don't need to agree with the logic of the preference choices, but we do need to respect it. 

It may sadden people (us included at times), but we would rather move on, connect and engage with those who we are aligned with and enjoy those encounters, and conversations. 

Why lose sleep over things you can not control. 

@Farsin thank you for your view.  Id like to make 4  points.

1.  The definition you quoted being from UNESCO is I believe the definition of prejudice in general and not racism.   Racism is a type of prejudice based solely on race or geographic location (oxford dictionary).  Therefore your points on bisexuality etc being a form of racism is invalid.

2. My rant was to share my frustration and annoyance on seeing these race specific statements on profiles.  As much as we would like to ignore it, it is racist - simple.  Trying to lessen its racism by comparing it to other constrictors makes it culturally acceptable which i do not believe is going in the right direction. The other prejudices experienced was not the focal point of my rant.  The focal point as per the title is race.  If you feel strongly about giving these a voice please feel free to start a thread of your own.   Your point that other prejudice exists is valid but does not therefore validate racism as right.

 3.  the notion "Why lose sleep over things you cannot control' is the exact reason things do not change.  Thank goodness not all people think this way or I would not have the opportunity for education in South Africa, travel in Europe and we both would not have had the opportunity to be in wonderful interracial relationships.

4. The rebuttals I received on this topic are along the lines of how racism is not a big deal and it is their preference.  nobody has addressed in lineage topic and how arbitrary it is in the end.

I am  thankful to have had this opportunity to debate this with you and thankful to all those who chose to loose sleep over seemingly arbitrary topics today in order the shape our global culture tomorrow.

I would like to reiterate, this was the rant from a newbie on SH. I did not intend for it to become a political stance but its clear from your response and the responses before that it was necessary to hold a mirror up to this topic.

No matter how anyone try to defend it is does not boils down to racism, the truth is that it is exactly that. You can think what you want but not say what you want. To publicly broadcast that you do not cross the racial lines is racist.

Interesting debate that I did not think I would see on SH. But you learn something each day.

I make no apology for specifying white/caucasian as my choice of partner. I also prefer athletic people or those of medium build. I am not keen to choose a member who is large in build. And I prefer men and woman who are shaved. So what does this make me?

I don't care a fuck! My body...my choice...my life...my right

@stanley  This argument you make above was made by 2 posters before you.  I will stop responding to reoccurring arguments from now on as it is pointless and repetitive which adds nothing new to the discussion.  Please read the previous submissions.

Your preferences are your preferences.  To answer your question, when you proudly and publicly proclaim "...whites only" it makes you racist. 

Frankly I dont care that you are racist and as I said above Im not trying to change your mind.  I believe publicly proclaimed racist statements are distasteful and archaic. This is my opinion on the topic.

I wish you all the best

Quote by playfulpeeps
@Farsin thank you for your view.  Id like to make 4  points.
1.  The definition you quoted being from UNESCO is I believe the definition of prejudice in general and not racism.   Racism is a type of prejudice based solely on race or geographic location (oxford dictionary).  Therefore your points on bisexuality etc being a form of racism is invalid.
2. My rant was to share my frustration and annoyance on seeing these race specific statements on profiles.  As much as we would like to ignore it, it is racist - simple.  Trying to lessen its racism by comparing it to other constrictors makes it culturally acceptable which i do not believe is going in the right direction. The other prejudices experienced was not the focal point of my rant.  The focal point as per the title is race.  If you feel strongly about giving these a voice please feel free to start a thread of your own.   Your point that other prejudice exists is valid but does not therefore validate racism as right.
 3.  the notion "Why lose sleep over things you cannot control' is the exact reason things do not change.  Thank goodness not all people think this way or I would not have the opportunity for education in South Africa, travel in Europe and we both would not have had the opportunity to be in wonderful interracial relationships.
4. The rebuttals I received on this topic are along the lines of how racism is not a big deal and it is their preference.  nobody has addressed in lineage topic and how arbitrary it is in the end.
I am  thankful to have had this opportunity to debate this with you and thankful to all those who chose to loose sleep over seemingly arbitrary topics today in order the shape our global culture tomorrow.

I would like to reiterate, this was the rant from a newbie on SH. I did not intend for it to become a political stance but its clear from your response and the responses before that it was necessary to hold a mirror up to this topic.

 The points, opinions and perspectives you have are acknowledged and respected, but not agreed with. 

Thanks for a clean, non aggressive and thought provoking conversation. 

Just to be clear. 

If your preference (choice) in the lifestyle is muscular and well toned playmates - you can say as much, and its fine. You're not bodyshaming. Noted.

If your preference (choice) is that playmates be shaved where it counts - you can say so and it's fine. You're not hirsuteshaming. Noted.

If your preference (choice) is for non-smokers only - you can say so and it's fine. You're not tobaccoshaming. Noted.

If your preference (choice) is for couples or single females only - you can say so and it's fine. You're not sexshaming. Noted.

But if your preference is to play within your own race - you may not say so because then you're a racist. Rather don't list that preference and let people message you which you can then choose to ignore. Or waste your and their time sending them a delined message. Gotcha.

 #HypocrisyMuch #SnowFlakesEverywhere

Quote by playfulpeeps
@stanley  This argument you make above was made by 2 posters before you.  I will stop responding to reoccurring arguments from now on as it is pointless and repetitive which adds nothing new to the discussion.  Please read the previous submissions.
Your preferences are your preferences.  To answer your question, when you proudly and publicly proclaim "...whites only" it makes you racist. 
Frankly I dont care that you are racist and as I said above Im not trying to change your mind.  I believe publicly proclaimed racist statements are distasteful and archaic. This is my opinion on the topic.
I wish you all the best

 Your response is noted and the fact that you took the time to respond is appreciated. While I disagree with your statement that by specifying my choice of ethnic partners makes he a racist I will defend your right to do so.

I have to AGREE, it is kinda racist . " We dont cross the racial barrier".  Since when does race have a barrier? In this age to still be racist , Wow.....not cool.

The day we don't get to choose who we fuck for fear of not being politically correct - is the day you can GFY. And if THAT offends you - it says a whole lot more about you than it does about us. 

@2some4fun this discussion is not about your right to choose who you sleep with.   nobody on this forum is saying that.

Nobody of refuting the fact that other prejudices exists.  

Disqualifying an entire group of people solely based on race, is racist.   That is literally the definition.  Today in this modern world we currently live in, this is not publicly acceptable.

Back to the original reason for this post: I find those race specific strap lines on some profiles on SH out of place in modern society and distasteful. 

——————-
To everybody reading this: Please try and stick to the facts of the argument and please try and keep the conversation constructive.

This is a very emotionally charged topic for many SH users out there let’s try and remain respectful of each other’s views and stay away from trolling.

Thank you 

Noted. Ok. Lets get to the facts then.

@Mr PlayfulPeeps - Would you like to have sex with a man? And by definition we mean: Recieving of intercourse in your bum?

And still they are defending racism. Never ending story

@freshman So your stance therefore officially is: Its ok to not want to play across color lines. It's ok to reject advances from anybody of a different ethnicity as you - as long as you only think and feel it. But you just can't say it. The action of committing it to writting or vocalizing it are racist. The other actions are fine? Correct?

The thing of race for me some couples put it Der for other couples to accept them we have played with many couples who say do not cross the racial barrier but what irritates me is those couples that say we don’t cross but will send you a msg saying can we play with your wife that I feel is bullshit but everyone journey is different 

And we respect its dey decision but like I said most of them do cross the race barrier will play with you and this is from our personal experience  

Quote by 2some4fun
@freshman So your stance therefore officially is: Its ok to not want to play across color lines. It's ok to reject advances from anybody of a different ethnicity as you - as long as you only think and feel it. But you just can't say it. The action of committing it to writting or vocalizing it are racist. The other actions are fine? Correct?

 Exactly. Be racist if you want to. Do not broadcast it to the world and wear it as a bagde of honor as Playfullpeeps so eloquently put it. Don't show the world how proud you are of your racist preference. It doess not suit the kind of platform where open-minded people frequents. 

Quote by Freshman

Quote by 2some4fun
@freshman So your stance therefore officially is: Its ok to not want to play across color lines. It's ok to reject advances from anybody of a different ethnicity as you - as long as you only think and feel it. But you just can't say it. The action of committing it to writting or vocalizing it are racist. The other actions are fine? Correct?

 Exactly. Be racist if you want to. Do not broadcast it to the world and wear it as a bagde of honor as Playfullpeeps so eloquently put it. Don't show the world how proud you are of your racist preference. It doess not suit the kind of platform where open-minded people frequents. 

 Guess it boils down to interpretation then. We have seen many profiles with the terminology "we don't play with other races". And we have seen it on black / white / coloured and indian profiles. Not once did we ever take offence to it. Perhaps we are too liberal? We construed it to mean that those profiles found comfort in their own demographic or had preference to one demographic over another. Whatever their reason - we moved along swiftly. We did not send them a message saying our feelings were hurt / or that we took offence to it. We embraced it for what it was/is. Their journey. 

If rejection based on any manner of preference causes you offence...  oh boy do we have news for you. The lifestyle is FULL of rejection. It's not mandated anywhere that this one HAS to play with that one. It's about choice. Some people prefer not to beat around the bush about it. That's all. They dont want countless emails and winks from any particular "value set" that doesn't appeal to them. Some contributors on this thread would prefer these people say nothing and then endure the inevitable sifting through countless unwanted emails? Aint nobody got time 'fo that FFS. Many peoples vanilla time in their real world is so short in value - they hardly have enough time to kuir with family and friends. And now they must cut their "fun time" even more to that, to humour those people who cant handle being told in a forthright and direct manner "we don't want contact from XYZ". Please....

In 6 years we have NEVER seen a derogatory name used for any other race/creed on any profiles be it here or the many other Swingers sites/platforms we frequent. In fact, we have come to learn that swingers are some of the most accepting people out there. Far greater than society in general. People need to perhaps stop being so sensitive to words. Its their choice to choose to include you. Just like its your choice to keep scrolling and also your choice to feel offended by their choice. 

To reiterate. We as a couple embrace ALL colours/creeds/ages/orientations. While we do have a value set that we adhere to fairly astutely when it comes to play partners (generally related to size and aesthetics).  If the synergies flow and the chemistries abound - chances are we'll get along and have heaps of fun. Outlook determines Outcome. If you have a sizeable chip on your shoulder which emanates from insecurities - then sincerely, that's a whole other issue. 

hi

eveytime i read an add i think i need a passport  but thk u for bringin  up this topic really appreciated

prejudice /ˈprɛdʒʊdɪs/
preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience. The word is often used to refer to a preconceived, usually unfavourable, evaluation of another person

bias /ˈbʌɪəs/
inclination or prejudice for or against one person or group, especially in a way considered to be unfair.

I have a profile on a dating site without a profile pic.  Once upon a time I matched with someone who also didnt have a profile pic. We got along, exchange numbers, more conversation, the pics upon which it was "sorry, I don't cross racial lines".
     Fast forward a year or so and the same thing happens, except this time we exchange numbers and to my surprise, its already in my Contacts. I tell her "bad news, remember that guy blah blah, well, seems we have crossed paths again".

Long story short we ended up shagging 2 - 3 times a week for about 6 months after she dropped her kids off at school. One day I asked her about her change of heart on the colour issue and she said "oh, you aren't black". About a year later I asked her about it again and she said second time round she decided to get over herself and give it a try.

So the thing is, stipulations like "no beards, shaved/unshaved, fat/slim, tall/short, singles/couples" etc are usually grounded in some sort of experience. The racial preference isn't and therein is the rub. If a single/couple receives a message from someone they don't find attractive I would like to think they either pass on the message or a more polite minority may reply with a "thanks but no thanks".  Early days on this site I noticed that there are those who would block me simply for looking at their profiles after seeing a pic in the gallery. Its their perogative but hellz, at one point I was worried I would be banned from the site!

I recently messaged a white couple in one of the farming provinces. Turns out she has a very strong preference for black men. Looking at their profile its not something that is obvious. They aren't members of any interracial groups and their profile makes no mention of "colour lines" issues. The only noteable feature is their friend's list is not public, I would guess in part because their list of black male friends is long and distinguished.

And so we find ourselves playing endless hide and seek and other games.  To quote a playmate of mine "everyone should just fuck someone of a different colour and get over themselves"

In my humble opinion.....as always

In our perfect world, if the colour of a person's skin was to be perceived as irrelevant, it would take humanity 30 seconds to find another difference. We are inherently unique and individually different.

Personally, I do not read "whites only" as being a racist choice, but a preference of individuals in the lifestyle. Coming from interracial parents, and being in an interracial marriage myself, I have been exposed to most of the ugly forms racism can expose itself to. I have been around the block many times, and have been intimate with all races and nationalities alike and not once have I experienced racism as you call it. I have been many woman's first... and probably disappointing enough to be their last. I apologize for this revelation - the  colour of a person's skin does not make a sexual difference. But your approach to intimacy does, respect does, your personal preference does..etc etc.

Your profile choices are personal:

Only wanting to play in your own race does not make you racist.

Only wanting to play with straight people does not make you homophobic.

Only wanting to play with women does not make you misandry.

The list is endless.

Now I may be crucified for this statement...7.5 billion people on the planet, a few hundred choose not to have sex with you...grow up..move on...build a bridge and get over it...you cannot see the forest because the trees are in the way.

My humble opinion...as always

In that case we can agree that people with power over their bodies have the right to choose what to do with their bodies and who to grant access

At the same time we should probably accept that those with other levers of power should also be allowed to use those powers to restrict access to certain groups (and here I am making a very sideways reference to Covid 19 relief funds for the tourism sector).  Its not racism right? Its just a preference. 

Very early days on SH I saw a profile which was eloquently worded. I wish I could find it again because paraphrasing them doesn't do them justice.  It was a white couple that said something along the lines of "We like to spend time with people we get along with so while we dont have a racial preference we have a personality preference"

I'm not South African so I will point out something. There is a lot of stuff that flies in SA that doesn't fly in other parts of the world. At it cuts both ways. For example. I have found some Eastern Europeans to be quite racist. The difference is they will tell you straight to your face but still have a beer with you (start touching their women and the atmosphere changes dramatically). In SA "no one" is racist, but then in general there isn't a great deal of mixing over beers either.

I think its important to reiterate the point of this forum post or rather what is not a point of contention.  Some of these statements we introduced in replies but are really not being challenged in anyway

I am not challenging anyone's right to choose a sexual partner or decide who you want to sleep with, interact with or be friends regardless of the criteria you decide to use

I am not challenging that other prejudices exist outside of racism.  Pointing to these does not validate racism

I agree that there are levels of racism and people who are racist are not 1 dimensional beings and have other defining qualities other than racist.

I dont think anybody has a fear or problem with rejection or upset because potential playmates have not accepted their advances for any reason.

My argument and opinion remains that the public display of racism on the front page of your SH profile is distasteful.  The arguments above against this statement can be paraphrased to "if my preference is to not cross racial boundaries why should I hide it?"' And here I would say because racists statements are condemned globally, against the law is most countries and culturally insensitive.

It would be akin to having a "whites only" bumper sticker, or "only whites allowed" outside your party venue, or "we do not cross the race line"  on your facebook or linked in profile. (as an example)

I am not saying that if you prefer a sexual partner from your race only, you  would not be friends with; or invite a different race into  your house or your party.  

The question is: if you came across profiles on Facebook or linkedin with the front page tag line "we do not cross racial boundaries",  or a bumper sticker or sign outside a house or church brandishing "Whites only" would you find this acceptable in our world today?  

If we as a modern society collectively agree this wrong in the real world, then why are we so quick to defend this behaviour on SH?